Hi VTE.

I have followed the whole rebuild process acording to the fantastic DVD I bought (I also bought the Workshop Manual for the MF 35).

I have recently started up the engine for the very first time.  It was running absolutely fantastic.  But after approx 4-5 minutes the engine slowly stalls and decreases in revs and then completely stalls – almost at the same time the radiator starts “leaking” because of the boiling water in the block.

Everything inside is new – pistons, rings, liners, crankshaft is balanced with new bearings – the WHOLE lot.  What I am afraid of is that the tolerance between the piston through the rings to the liner is to narrow.  I have removed the head now and looked at the pistons and the inside of the liners and they look as they were new – no scratches no ressidue of any kind!  All the spare parts I have bought in the UK – also the Engine Overhaul Kit – 23C.

What would You recommend I do next?

Kind regards from Denmark
Mr Lau Jakobsen

I would think you have a cooling problem.

What will be happening (I suspect) is that the cooling system isn’t working
for some reason.  The aluminium pistons will be overheating and expanding
(more quickly than the iron block) and hence the expanded pistons will
become difficult to move along the bores.   This will create more friction
and even more heat making the engine even hotter and the problem even worse.

What could be wrong?

Either one of the pipes is blocked up or the thermostat is not allowing the
water to circulate or the water pump is not circulating the water or the
radiator blocked.  Other things to look for are gaskets fitted incorrectly
and blocking coolant pathways, or temporary covers (e.g. cloths or tape used to cover coolant pathways during the rebuild) that haven’t been removed. I would take a careful look at all the cooling system components.

The thermostat should begin to open at between 68 and 74 degrees C. It
should be fully open at 85 degrees C – which can be checked by placing in a
pan of water and heating up the water.

Will this have damaged anything?

Hopefully not. If the engine was just running at idling speed in the
workshop then I would suspect that nothing will have got damaged. Things tolook for are damaged piston rings and cylinder head (although you have been in and inspected these).

Hope that helps.

Let us know how you get on.

If anyone has any other theories or suggestions for Lau then please let us know in the comments below.

The Vintage Tractor Engineer.

Hi,

I have both your engine rebuild and hydraulic overhaul DVD’s but unfortunately for me they cannot help me with this wee problem and was wondering if you could possibly point me in the right direction?

I have a ford 4600 wich has oil mixing with the water and assumed the head gasket was damaged. I changed the gasket and the tractor ran ok for about a day but started mixing oil with the water again. There was not any obvious damage to the old gasket and she had a new short motor about 13 years ago and has not done excessive hours since. We have always used good quality antifreeze since so I am really hoping it is not damage to the block!! I didn’t get the head skimmed when I did the head gasket as every thing looked ok. I am going to strip it down again in the spring when i get time and was wondering where else could the oil mix with the water assuming the head gasket is ok. I tinker about with the engines and not a time served mechanic so would be greatfull for any advice you could give. I do relise you will be extremely busy but any help will be greatfully received.

Regards,
Alan

Hi Alan,

Here are a couple of suggestions…

It could be a cracked cylinder head but I think this is not very likely.

It could be a porous block (which usually manifests itself as water in the oil, rather than oil in the water). What did they do when the engine was overhauled? Did they just true up the bores and fit oversized pistons? Or was it machined and liners fitted? Often the bores have just been trued up and oversized pistons fitted (as its a cheaper option) but now this means the wall of the block is even thinner than it was originally and it is likely that a crack or fissure has occured in the block allowing the water to passs through.

This is common with Ford engines and is known as ‘porous block’ (as the cylinder walls are so thin). This happens regularly with with slightly newer models such as the Ford 6610 and 7610 (even when the cylinders have not been bored out).

If this has happened then it can have cast iron sleeves pressed in which solves the problem. I would suggest measuring the pistons and comparing that measurement with the spec of the original pistons in order to determine if the pisons have been replaced with oversized ones. If they have, then I believe ‘porous block’ is likely to be the problem.

Some Ford tractor have an oil cooler in the bottom of the radiator and it is possible for that to split, this manifests itself as oil in the water so is a distinct possiblity as the cause of your problem.

Hope that helps,

Steve and Ian (VTE)

I have a MF35 tractor. The hydraulic lift pump seems to be operating slow when using the hydraulics to lift the ram on my tilt trailer. I have been advised to check the strainer. I was given a photo copie of the lift pump with strainer, but when I pulled off the side plates to look for it, the lift pump looks different and there is no strainer to be found.The photo copied info is for a MF 35 like mine.Is there any one that might know what I am doing wrong I would be grateful for any info. thanks.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

The early tractors didn’t have a filter on the pump.

The next (easiest and least expensive) thing to check would be the o’rings on the stand pipe. There is a small cap under the seat (under front right hand side of seat). If you remove this cap there is a stand-pipe under there which you can pull out. Check the condition of the o’rings and replace if necessary – this is a common place for oil to leak. The stand pipe takes oil from the pump and up into the lift cylinder.

If that doesn’t help then you will probably have to remove the top hydraulic cover and take a look inside. There could be a whole host of reasons as to what is causing the problem. A faulty pressure relief valve is a possiblity, or otherwise the control valve or wear in the pump itself.

The hydraulic system is quite complex, but it is only a mechanical system, so anyone can refurbish the system.  It isn’t really possible to email you the details of what to do, as it is so complex, but if you need it then the Hydraulics DVD shows 2 hours of tutorials of what to do to get the system working as it should.

Steve (VTE).

I am electrically ignorant….HELP???

Hi John,

I would say that it could be one of a few things that could be causing the problem.

Try the safety isolator switch (just in front of steering box). Make sure the tractor is out of gear (R,1,2,3), join the wires together on this switch (white/blue wire to the white/red). If it then startes with the ignition switch then that is the problem.

Next try the ignition switch to see if it is faulty.

Next thing sould be the whole wiring loom (or part of it).

Have a look at this page and the wiring diagram.

Hope that helps.

Steve, VTE

Hello,
The 3 point linkage and front loader on my 1957 4 cylinder diesel Mf 35 have stopped working, all happened out of the blue, just worked one day then not. I changed the oil which was quite milky, front loader went up once then no more. 3 point kind of tries to rise (judders) but has no power. Any pointers as to where to start looking!!?
Best regards David.

Hi David,
First question is does the PTO work. If it does not then there is no drive getting through to the hydraulic pump, which would mean either problems in the clutch or rear end drive. If it is trying to lift a little bit then the above is unlikely to be the problem.

The most likely reason for your problem is that the control valve is sticking. If you take off the right hand side cover (where the transmission oil dipstick is) you will see a lever stuck up out of the oil reservoir with
a small roller on it. Try working it backwards and forwards a few times to try and free it. The spring will return it to the correct position after you have done this. Next run the tractor with the side cover still off. Put the position lever to lift and look inside to the oil reservoir. You will be able to see some slight agitation of the oil because of the rotation of the pump shaft drive; if there is any signifficant turbulence or spraying of oil would mean that there is a leaking pipe/burst o’ring etc.
I suspect the most likely cause of your problem is the stuck control valve.

If freeing the control valve releaves the problem for a while, but then it re-occurs, you may have a scratched control valve or corrosion in it. The milky oil (caused by water in the system) is likely to have accelerated the deterioration of the component. This is why the manufacturer recommends changing the oil every 12 months even if the tractor has not done many hours of work. In fact the less regularly the tractor is used, then the greater the necessity to change the oil every 12 months.

Hope that info helps make your diagnosis. If the control valve needs to be remove, then watch out for our MF35 Hydraulics Repair DVD to be released early in 2008 which will be of help to you.
Steve, VTE.

Finally found time to have a look inside.
PTO does work ok.

Lever with the small roller on it moves back and forth ok and springs back when released.

No move ment of oil when running, but there is a bow wave when pto is engaged.

There is a small amount of bubbling / movement when engine is runnig..

Off to bang head against a wall…

Sorry to take up your time, if there are any other avenues I can try I’d be over the moon to try them…

Any other suggestions gratefully accepted,
David.

Next question then….
If you can manage to, get the lift arms to the top position then stop the engine. If the arms go down unusually quickly then the fault lies in either the control valve or an o’ring on the stand pipe (pipe that
comes up from the pump up to the cap under the seat near your right hand leg).

It is possible to check the stand pipe o’rings by removing the 2 bolts holding the cap and lifting the cap and the stand pipe (tube) out. Then you will be able to look at the seals and assess their condition.

If the arms will hold reasonably well in the up position then it is more likely to be a problem with the pump (often the pump valves).

So if it is not the o’rings in the stand pipe then you will have to remove the top cover (under the seat). Check the bolts that hold the lift cylinder as it is possible that these could be loose. If that is OK then there is something wrong with the pump/control valve. To remove it you need to drain the oil, remove the locating dowels which go through the side of the transmission housing and prevent the pump from rotating on the shaft. Remove the differential drive shaft coupler followed by the PTO shaft. The pump will now lift out.

The pump can then be dissmantled, all the components checked and then repaired if necessary. Be very careful with arrangement of the components and make sure that everything is kept spotlessly clean.

Dissmantling and rebuilding of the pump is difficult do describe in words.

Good luck and let us know how you get on. We get so many people like yourself with hydraulic problems, so we’ll have to press on filming the DVD!!
Steve.

Checked the o rings on the stand pipe today, one was split the other one was very worn. I replaced both and things are a little better. Rear arms rise slowly but judder on the way up, they will just about lift with me standing on them, front loader tries to lift but only gets a little way up.

I notice there is a grub screw in the stand pipe housing, is this a vent plug to expell any trapped air…? I have replaced the oil recently are there any vents that i should attend to..? clutching at straws now….??!

Best regards
David

Hi David,
The grub screw in the stand pipe cap is just there to block the hole which has been drilled for the manufacture of the cap. It is not a vent and there are no other vents to attend to. Bleeding or venting is not necessary due to the design of the lift cylinder (as the rings allow any air to escape).

I’m afraid you’ll have to take the top cover off and strip down the pump. I think we’ve exhausted all the ‘easy’ options and possibilities.
Steve.

Comments…..
1
B B says:

December 24th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Thanks for your forum it got me out of trouble after changing my oil the hydraulics did not work. I replaced the o rings on stand pipe works fine again now.

I had to replace my radiator some months ago and only had access to a ford x flow I stood it up and ran the hoses back then under the motor and up it works fine I did have to leave the bonnet off but it works this might help some one in the same trouble.

Thanks again very helpful site.
B B
Australia