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Lau from Denmark has done a complete engine rebuild of the 23C engine in his Massey Ferguson 35. However, he is having some problems and has written in to see what could be the trouble. He says…
Hi VTE.
I have followed the whole rebuild process acording to the fantastic DVD I bought (I also bought the Workshop Manual for the MF 35).
I have recently started up the engine for the very first time. It was running absolutely fantastic. But after approx 4-5 minutes the engine slowly stalls and decreases in revs and then completely stalls – almost at the same time the radiator starts “leaking” because of the boiling water in the block.
Everything inside is new – pistons, rings, liners, crankshaft is balanced with new bearings – the WHOLE lot. What I am afraid of is that the tolerance between the piston through the rings to the liner is to narrow. I have removed the head now and looked at the pistons and the inside of the liners and they look as they were new – no scratches no ressidue of any kind! All the spare parts I have bought in the UK – also the Engine Overhaul Kit – 23C.
What would You recommend I do next?
Kind regards from Denmark
Mr Lau Jakobsen
I would think you have a cooling problem.
What will be happening (I suspect) is that the cooling system isn’t working
for some reason. The aluminium pistons will be overheating and expanding
(more quickly than the iron block) and hence the expanded pistons will
become difficult to move along the bores. This will create more friction
and even more heat making the engine even hotter and the problem even worse.
What could be wrong?
Either one of the pipes is blocked up or the thermostat is not allowing the
water to circulate or the water pump is not circulating the water or the
radiator blocked. Other things to look for are gaskets fitted incorrectly
and blocking coolant pathways, or temporary covers (e.g. cloths or tape used to cover coolant pathways during the rebuild) that haven’t been removed. I would take a careful look at all the cooling system components.
The thermostat should begin to open at between 68 and 74 degrees C. It
should be fully open at 85 degrees C – which can be checked by placing in a
pan of water and heating up the water.
Will this have damaged anything?
Hopefully not. If the engine was just running at idling speed in the
workshop then I would suspect that nothing will have got damaged. Things tolook for are damaged piston rings and cylinder head (although you have been in and inspected these).
Hope that helps.
Let us know how you get on.
If anyone has any other theories or suggestions for Lau then please let us know in the comments below.
The Vintage Tractor Engineer.
i put my thermostat in upside down once. That will make it get hot.
Is there any way I can tell if my cooling system
Is air locked as I am having bother with my 22c overheating as we’ll, radiator is clear and pump is working but it is heating up fairly quickly. This engine just received new pistons,liners rings and big ends and all the crank etc was checked and was ok
Hi Lau,
That’s great to hear that you have sorted everything out. Thanks for everyone’s suggestions as to what could be wrong. At least it was only an airlock in the cooling system, so easy to fix. When something isn’t right it is often so difficult to find the problem as so many different things could be the cause.
Steve.
Hi all.
Thank You for your contribution. Now I have got it all right – finally!
Two things went wrong during the rebuild process – first of all the setting of the dieselpump was not quite as accurate as it should have been – and second there was in fact an air lock in the cooling system. So after having solved these issues the tractor MF35 with the 23C engine is running smoothly. Thanks for all your comments – it helped !
I think it is important for him to say if the engine was working before the rebuild, I mean functioning correctly in as far as oil circulation water circulation were concerned. If this be the case then the mystery thickens. personally I don’t see the need for a thermostat in a tractor, slow warming is always better than things getting hot quickly. Though I will stand corrected if you disagree.
We’ve had a few more comments come in via email…
1
Just read this with interest. I take it that the oil pressure was checked and oil was circulating? I know that the pistons and bores looked OK, but what about the crank? The engine may run for a few minutes on the oil used in the rebuild, but not much longer.
Just a thought.
Regards
Graham
2
The problem with Lau could be, there is an airlock in the cooling system & not letting the water circulate around , which could lead to the radiator boiling . Put a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator to make the engine get to operating temp , leave the radiator cap off & watch the water until no bubbles appear (with the engine running ) . Also it could be a new seized thermostat , I had this problem once . Hope this helps . Be careful of the hot boiling water.
Dave Ryder
3
In answer to “Lau” Denmark Nov 4th 6:33am about the engine over heating, did you replace the core plugs? i am rebuilding an FE35 engine and am waiting for the crank and the head to be returned from the machine shop. the core plugs when removed revealed a solid wall of what looked like metal, this was just corrosion and had to be broken up with sharp instruments ie- old screwdriver and a punch and then flushed out with a hose pipe, the quantity of material removed was amazing and as the core plugs cost only pence and are easy to remove and to replace with new ones i would strongly recommend replacement no matter on what engine you are working on.
Andrew Hughes
4
I echo the advise above, You might remove the thermostat all together for a short period. Perhaps do an engine water coolant flush to see if there is any blockage with the thermostate removed..
MF 35 Owner
5
Hi,
When I first ran my tractor everything was OK but after 20 mins of so the front section of the cylinder head seemed too hot but the coolant cool.
After inspection I realised that although the cooling system seemed full of coolant. there must have been an airlock in the main block somewhere, that the pump did not clear.
The result was a small water leak around the head gasket. I replaced this then, prepared the exact quantity of coolant prior to fulling. This time I filled it very slowly, squeezing the rubber hoses, starting it, stopping it etc. to make sure I had a complete fill. No problems since.
Good luck
Richard Goldingham
Did you replace the core plugs when doing the rebuild and give the block a good flush out, core plugs (5 on your engine) are easy to deal with and cost only pence to replace.
Is the impeller on the water pump turning and pumping the water, daft question, but it seems a short time for the water to start boiling.
Simple stuff like checking the head gasket is copper side down and is not blocking the water ways.
and then back to tight bearings and the technical stuff posted by the gentleman a few minuets ago. A.H.
Hi Just a thought….
Was the engine BLOCK flushed out properly. All welch plugs removes ………power flushed ??
Cheers !!
I carried out this rebuild myself in the late 1990s. I find it puzzling that the engine would overheat so quickly just on idle. I’m pretty sure that mine would easily run for 5 minutes with no water in the system at all without overheating.
The only way that I can think that it might overheat in such a short space of time, is if combustion gases are escaping into the water jacket.
I hope you get to the bottom of the problem and await the outcome with interest.
Good luck and good wishes
CJ
Mr Jakobsen, all that you have been told has to be gone through of course stage by stage, never do anything when sorting problems out all at once. So you have not made clear if the gap between rings is correct. Second are you positive that you have put the big end and main bearing shells in correctly, did you smear some grease around them first and did you tighten up slowly. Had a van once and did everything correctly accept the parts were from another maker than Ford, they were just a little tight so had undo the shells and run a while so as to loosen them up a bit after that all was fine. Q where did you buy your overhaul kit, Massey or some other place?
The thing that bothers me about the water is I wonder if the thermostat would have had time to kick in with just short time running, not sure what VTE think, but sounds like a very tight engine the moment heat is present and this would also boil the water in the block, but fail to see how that would cause the water in the radiator to get hot if the water was not circulating. Maybe you could explain in a little more depth about the radiator leaking?