Dear Sirs – I have a M/f 165 with an A4 212 Perkins engine – cylinder head gasket leaking causing pressure in cooling system & also oil in the water. Stripped down top of engine – had head pressure tested & checked for trueness – both ok – did the valves & all injectors serviced – checked for any visable signs of cracks – left parrafin in water jacket in block for a few days to see if level drops – didn’t – assembled engine using new gaskets (M/F Parts) & all bolts / nuts torqued down – started engine – runs well / oil pressure good / temperature normal / no smoke from exhaust -breather ok.
Had engine running for several hours and under load – took tractor to do a little job about 2 mile trip – water coming out of Rad overflow intermittently – stopped & checked – oil in water & oil level on dipstick dropprd to just above half way – flushed coolant system through & filled with clean water – run engine for 2 hours traces of oil in water but level constant – any Ideas
Just a couple of thoughts…..
There isn’t really anywhere in the head where oil is under pressure (except the little bit which goes up to the rockers). So I’m thinking that oil in the water could be from a crack in the block.
Is the engine fitted with a heat exchanger (oil cooler) between the oil and water systems? This could be an area where oil could enter the water system.
Many thanks for taking the time to reply to my email about the 165 multi power perkins engine.
You are correct about a crack in the block – on further investigation I found on top of the block over the top of oil way a hole which had been filled up with lead / or some kind of soft material & machined – this has been by the look of it leaking & then sealing itself up again when I stripped head off the first time one of the holes for the water jacket was all blocked up apart from a few pin holes ( this hole is directly above the filled up part in block )
When head pressure checked I asked about if it should be blocked off but they didn’t think so – the engine is out of tractor in my workshop all stripped out – put head back on & torqued up – using a very long piece of plastic pipe to give some pressure filled up engine with water & found a crack between 2 -3 inside block – dripping badly – also badly corroded inside bottom of block – looks like a good secondhand short block if I can find one – again many thanks for taking the time to reply.
The different rings on a piston perform different functions and it is important to fit the rings in the correct order on the piston and also the correct way up. We have found this video from Youtube which gives some simplified explanation of the function of the different piston rings and how they work.
Tractor engines of different sizes and from different manufacturers have differing arrangements of rings. This video gives a brief explanation and is worth taking a few minutes to watch.
Having problems with oscillating valve cir clip. How do you get cir clip in position inside valve. Does the valve slide? My old girl is in the 400,000 series. Acquired her last year, finally getting around to
refurbishing her. She still goes, but how so got me beat – more sludge than the black lagoon in back end of her. Any help greatly recieved.
Yes the valve slides.
There ws an alteration to the design of this component at serial number
It would appear that the control valve and keyrod (or oscillating drive
strip – depending on version) can be assembled together whilst being out of the pump. This should make it some what easier to work on the retaining circlip. It is of the upmost importance for the circlip to be located correctly in its groove.
As long as the pump is not fitted to the tractor, the valve and oscillator keyrod/drive strip should simply slide back into its bore after lining up the square/slot.
Hope you have some luck.
I have a mf 35 4 cylinder engine rebuilt pistons liners rings little ends
valve seats recut new valves head skimed it used to start up on 3 cylinders then the 4th cylinder come in we have had the injectors and injector pump serviced now it takes up to 4 atemps to start even in hot weather, if it was cold don’ go there because it won’t start. Heater plug is working only got 1.
I suppose it must be something to do with the injection timing. Did you have a look at the timing chain and tensioner and also the backlash on the injection pump drive gear?
No we didn’t look at the timing chain or the tensioner or the backlash of the injection pump, one thing we did do is to check the compression 120 psi when dry and 190 psi when wet,do you know what the compression should be please. Many thanks, Phil butler
I’ve been searching for the compression test data which I knew I had somewhere but just couldn’t find. Anyway I’ve found it now.
The data I have is that the dry test should be 380PSI and then the wet test no more than about 10% above this. I would think that anything above 350PSI would be acceptable.
The dry figure I have is considerably higher than yours, but you have had new pistons, liners and rings. Did you fit the rings yourself? Were rings 2 and 3 fitted with the tapered periphery of these rings towards the crown of the piston?
The good news is that there is a difference between your two tests so that eliminates the cause of your problems been with the head gasket or valves.
However, the difference between your dry and wet tests is quite a lot, which all points towards a problem with either the liners or the pistons/rings.
Did you do the compression test on all 4 cylinders? and observe similar results.
I believe your compression test is very low, so I would think this is probably the cause of your starting problems.
Just a thought. Have you connected your tester through the injector fitting with a clear passage from the cylinder to the guague? Did you turn the engine over so the test gauge gave 5-6 readings before taking the reading?
I haven’t tested lots of the 23C engines myself, so I haven’t got any data of my own to compare with your test results. The 380PSI I quoted was a ‘text book figure’ I once wrote down, but I think it is about right.
120PSI is certainly low.
I would always say that there is no point preparing and painting a tractor
if you need to go back at a later date and perform some mechanical repairs;
basically because all the good paintwork is often scratched and damaged when doing the repair work.
When a job such as an engine rebuild is been undertaken this is a good
opportunity to prepare and paint the engine as you go along. When all the
engine ancillaries are removed from the block it makes it much easier to
clean and paint in all those hard to reach areas.
Also whilst a major component of the tractor is dismantled it makes sense to replace all the gaskets (usually contained in the parts kit) and hence stop
all the oil leaks that are part and parcel of an old tractor. Oil leaks that soon show up on a new paint job. If you do nothing else mechanically to a tractor before painting it, then stopping the oil leaks is a must – there’s just little point painting the tractor if oil is going to leak all over it.
We are not experts at painting here at Vintage Tractor Engineer, but I think the advice above is sensible. Customers usually prepare and paint their tractors at the same time as we are doing the mechanical repairs. We often just do a few hours work on an engine and then wait for the owner to catch up with the paint work.